tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post2418754233193249499..comments2023-12-20T14:58:09.347-06:00Comments on Dovi and Me: The Elite-ification of UltrarunningScotty Kummerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05247775319371323253noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-26390306275559450252016-01-25T23:04:27.913-06:002016-01-25T23:04:27.913-06:00Well written. https://runeatandtravel.wordpress.c...Well written. https://runeatandtravel.wordpress.com/2015/12/21/running-forward/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-2509423477931095082015-12-20T15:32:36.094-06:002015-12-20T15:32:36.094-06:00http://humanpotentialrunning.com/race-policies/
W...http://humanpotentialrunning.com/race-policies/<br /><br />We have a drug policy. Let's all just calm down and smoke some herb huh?sherpajohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08673139614510343222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-62396551035786189352015-12-18T12:58:59.285-06:002015-12-18T12:58:59.285-06:00I'm the anonymous commenter above. Thanks for...I'm the anonymous commenter above. Thanks for permitting it. I wasn't trying to hide anything. I'm just not very adept at the log in options. Jamie Hobbsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-41800769274095420382015-12-17T23:18:28.996-06:002015-12-17T23:18:28.996-06:00Is EVERYthing on iRunFar focused on the elites? No...Is EVERYthing on iRunFar focused on the elites? No.. not EVERYthing.. but 90% or more certainly is. No doubt about it. When I heard about the weRunFar segment, I hopped in to read a bit.. and all I've seen is a new focus on the "POPULAR" runners out there instead of the Elite.. and honestly, there isn't much of a difference. <br /><br />I read the TapRoom because of AJW's focus, as it isn't elite-centric. I feel his writing is the most personal and important on the site. Gear Reviews are hardly ever 100% honest and read more like advertisements. So I'm not interested in that.. I want people to be honest with me 100% about a product.. not just paint it in gold and then hand me a few of the silver pieces around the back. <br /><br />I agree with Scott's sentiments in his above comment on coverage. I too get that resources are an important part... but hey.. A LOT of people are left out of the predictions prior to races. The heavily sponsored and covered athletes are the ones who continue to get the coverage and placed on the podium before the race even starts. Meanwhile, there are others out there who could run toe to toe with some of the greats and they hardly get a mention (Ex: Ryan Smith Prior to WS100 in 2015.. while he fell short Seth Kelly from Boulder, CO came in 12th. (Do some research on these guys and you'll see why iRunFar missed the mark). <br /><br />I also don't see iRunFar as a resource for everyday runners and I hardly ever recommend anyone ever go there for that reason. For a site that claims to be an authority on the sport.. it falls short. More runners care less about the Front of the pack than those that do. Just look at the outpouring of support for blog posts like this one on Facebook, the Ultra List, etc.. there's more agreeing (BY FAR) than those who are not on these types of sentiments about the mid-and-back of the pack, community, and other not elite related discussions.<br /><br />However.. I will certainly acknowledge that there are many who love to follow the elite, they geek out over them, etc.. and iRunFar is a site for those folks. I get it.. they're out there.. but this sport is so much more than just THAT.sherpajohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08673139614510343222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-38990485905689598692015-12-17T23:05:59.987-06:002015-12-17T23:05:59.987-06:00Apis...
Modest Income? I'll give you some ful...Apis...<br /><br />Modest Income? I'll give you some full transparency<br /><br />$56,675 = HPRS Total Income Year to Date.<br />This number includes all sales: Race Entries, Membership Fees, the 20% I get from online Shirt sales, the $2.00 made from sticker sales, fees paid to me to do online coaching for folks, and any time someone paid by check or credit for a clinic I put on.<br /><br />$13,159 = My pay check.<br />This number represents the amount of money I have paid myself for the work I've done. <br /><br />$3,390 = The total amount of money lost/given away on discounted and comped race entries. Not included in this number is free coaching/training, ambassador membership discounts, and ambassador gear discounts. <br /><br />So.. What I'm saying is this... I think "Modest" isn't even accurate as I pay myself a less than moderate bit for my work as an RD at current.. and gave away 25% of what I pay myself.<br /><br />With that said.. HPRS has been built without a single financial sponsor. I've been able to keep my races entry fees reasonable, without financial sponsors and keeping fees below average. I know exactly how much I'd make if I kept things as is and sold out the series.. The correlation you speak of between sponsor dollars and entry fees is not accurate. Also.. increased fees is NOT causing lower participation. From a business perspective.. if you charge more there is a higher perceived value of your product. A good example would be the Grand Circle Race Series who has raised their fees quite a bit, yet still sell their races out. Same with WS100, Lottery fees for Hardrock and Leadville. People will pay whatever they need to pay for certain events. Supply and demand.<br /><br />I've often asked myself... what would having an "elite" do for my race? Increase visibility for a year? Encourage others to come out the following year? Other than that... the Elites will have no basis on my price points. Those who know me and attend my events, will testify to you 100% that my focus is on the community first and the business last.sherpajohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08673139614510343222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-16560898355128794692015-12-17T14:41:46.100-06:002015-12-17T14:41:46.100-06:00Whats an elite? I hear you- I dont care; not bec...Whats an elite? I hear you- I dont care; not because of apathy but because my experience is unrelated to what happens elsewhere in the race. Eric Shermannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-4861761721575774462015-12-17T14:10:34.615-06:002015-12-17T14:10:34.615-06:00Thanks alot man....I really liked your piece too. ...Thanks alot man....I really liked your piece too. And I'm not pro Lance or Pro doping or anti elite either. I'm starting to understand their point of view as this discussion continues. That being said, the other 95% of ultra/trail running should have a voice too (this was a big reason for starting my podcast). Although I think it's cool to talk about what Sage and Ian are up to I think we can also learn a lot from people like Juli Aistars and John Morelock and Larry Gassan. But I'm a fan of the sport, and after reading your post, a fan of you.Scotty Kummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05247775319371323253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-49299888761280769862015-12-17T13:15:29.095-06:002015-12-17T13:15:29.095-06:00Hey Scott, I really enjoyed this blog post. I foun...Hey Scott, I really enjoyed this blog post. I found myself nodding and agreeing quite a bit.<br /><br />Just for the record, I'm not "anti-elite". But your comments about being disappointed with all the focus on elites in media really resonated with me --particularly the bit about how it used to be so cool to see the full list of finishers in UltraRunningMagazine, but now it's just a bunch of articles from sponsored runners/coaches.<br /><br />I am really glad that there are voices like yours in our sport as a counter point to the elites like Ian Sharman and Sage Canaday who seem to be making the most noise and dominating the conversation, even though elites are just a small minority in our larger community of ultra runners and trail runners.<br /><br />Keep up the great work!<br /><br />JohnBig Johnny Burtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02950473560314509378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-89914241422990938972015-12-17T12:02:16.916-06:002015-12-17T12:02:16.916-06:00I normally don't post anonymous comments, but ...I normally don't post anonymous comments, but in this case I think anonymous dialogue is OK. But just for the record, I don't read as closely or give as much credit to anonymous posts. I always assume there's something fishy about someone that won't put their name next to something they write.Scotty Kummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05247775319371323253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-1833945753659331882015-12-17T10:19:03.421-06:002015-12-17T10:19:03.421-06:00The argument here has no basis in reality. For on...The argument here has no basis in reality. For one, "back to our roots" implies more low-frills events, which cost much less to put on. There are many great grass-roots events that range from super cheap to moderately priced. It is entirely possible to put on a good race without charging much, with or without elite runners. But second, sponsors currently do, and will still, sponsor races regardless of elite participation. They want to sell their products to the 99.9% of the market that isn't elite runners. Sponsoring builds goodwill, gets some name recognition, gets sample products in people's hand, etc. etc. Sponsors currently sponsor all kinds of races that don't have any elites running in them. I can't imagine any factual or even theoretical basis for thinking there's a connection between low fees and elite participation. Indeed, the races that draw serious competition are often the ones that are most expensive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-46939131048349082182015-12-17T02:42:55.580-06:002015-12-17T02:42:55.580-06:00Hi Ultra-runners!
We are the race directors of th...Hi Ultra-runners!<br /><br />We are the race directors of the Thailand Ultramarathon TU100 (100km). <br /><br />We would love you to be a part of our next race, on Nov 19 2016.<br /><br />The Thailand Ultramarathon has unusually generous prize money of £1,000 each for the male and female winners, which we believe will attract some of the top runners in Asia. The total prize money is £5,000, to males and females up to third place (the women's prize money is conditional of at least 20 women competing).<br /><br />The race is held in the forest/jungle of far north west of Thailand. The course is very a challenging, stunningly beautiful, remote 50km loop, with 2,500m of climbing, and 13 stream crossings per loop. The race HQ and all CP's are in local hill tribe villages.<br /><br />We have a great community element to the race - almost all our race day staff are local hill tribers, and we hold several activity days in local schools prior to the race. <br /><br />We have set a limit of 200 runners for the TU100 to keep the unique character and vibe of the event.<br /><br />The previous winner of the TU100 (in 2014) was the quitely awesome Salvador Calvo Redondo. <br /><br />The race is also a 3 point UTMB qualifier.<br /><br />More information is available on our website: www.thailandultramarathon.com<br /><br />Please let us know if you are interested in taking part. Entries open very soon - on 20th December 2015. Places are limited to 200 for each event (50 km and 100 km on consecutive weekends). As we have started to attract elite runners we expect all the entries to fill up rapidly.<br /><br />Hope you will join us for one of the toughest and friendliest ultras in Asia.<br /><br />Best wishes<br /> <br />Julie Stapleton and Marcus Philpott<br />stapletonjulie@hotmail.com<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-73853239482995877142015-12-16T14:43:45.002-06:002015-12-16T14:43:45.002-06:00If you're not a fan of Sage, why were you face...If you're not a fan of Sage, why were you facebook friends with him? That's weird.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-26763854882864305102015-12-16T12:20:21.598-06:002015-12-16T12:20:21.598-06:00Mr. Kummer & Dovi:
Well reasoned and written ...Mr. Kummer & Dovi:<br /><br />Well reasoned and written piece. Thoughtful insight to be sure. It serves to raise consciousness for the sport, and is bringing about debate. Debate is rarely a bad thing. Apishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240664123564265935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-12949298045291604562015-12-16T12:18:19.058-06:002015-12-16T12:18:19.058-06:00Roots are all-well-and-good, but...
Without "...Roots are all-well-and-good, but...<br /><br />Without "elites" or at least sponsored runners the trail RACING community (from which you gain a modest income) will see increased fees because of loss of corporate sponsorship. Increased fees would *likely* cause lower participation. You yourself point out that race fees are already too high for most events, even with said sponsorship and underwriting.<br /><br />This entire subject is why I haven't raced since high school in the late 1970s. Trail running for me remains a hobby undertaken for my entertainment. It says something about me that were I to race again the entertainment aspect would be ruined.Apishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240664123564265935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-84775558806459036352015-12-16T11:40:14.755-06:002015-12-16T11:40:14.755-06:00Like the article mentioned, PED use is the only th...Like the article mentioned, PED use is the only thing anyone on social media cares about. Sage is awesome. He doesn't have a job, lives in the mountains, is sponsored, and has genetic gifts. I don't think its fair that I have to compete with him. Stop all the bullshit. We just need to run. Period. If lance wants to run with us the more the frickin merrier.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15065868036583851878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-19399488525977016622015-12-16T10:34:01.643-06:002015-12-16T10:34:01.643-06:00Great Blog as always Scott. You hit the nail on t...Great Blog as always Scott. You hit the nail on the head. By the way, who is that charming women in the picture at the end of your blog? She looks fun, and also hungry.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11336095909994854706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-62392868584071157422015-12-16T10:23:42.150-06:002015-12-16T10:23:42.150-06:00Why? Because I used to lie and steal to get mone...Why? Because I used to lie and steal to get money so I could snort morphine off a rusty dishwasher....and now I spend my life helping victims of civil rights abuses, abandoned animals and the ultra running community. <br /><br />Why? Because people can and do change and because we believe in second chances. Scotty Kummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05247775319371323253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-73367112658135731022015-12-16T10:12:02.643-06:002015-12-16T10:12:02.643-06:00He should be able to run whatever races he qualifi...He should be able to run whatever races he qualifies for but he should not be able to compete. Why should somebody who is a proven cheater, who may still be cheating and who is almost certainly continuing to reap the physiological benefits of years of cheating be given the chance to compete against runners who, simply put, have not and would not cheat. <br /><br />Just because (as examples) Ian and Sage work their asses off and have genetic gifts above and beyond what many are willing, able or capable of, it doesn't mean that they deserve to be cheated of the rewards of their hard work and focus.Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17806482036020660722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-486291331795269072015-12-15T23:36:03.386-06:002015-12-15T23:36:03.386-06:00So sorry ou haven't had the bst year running-w...So sorry ou haven't had the bst year running-wise. I feel you. I went 1-4 in 100 milers and buried my best running friend who lost his battle with ALS. I am keenly aware that there are a lot of people that would give anything to take a nice easy run in he woods. Have an attitude of gratitude and don't take any runs for granted. Here's to an awesome 2016!!Scotty Kummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05247775319371323253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-78704825970490565592015-12-15T23:20:53.192-06:002015-12-15T23:20:53.192-06:00At the heart of this piece is a message that rings...At the heart of this piece is a message that rings home with me: You just wanna run. For me, after a personally disappointing year of zero significant runs due to an injury, I could not care less about so called elites, controversies about what distance is an ultra, who doped, who cheated, etc. I just want to run,far,too;and I'm getting back there. If I was going to care about a running issue,it would be an issue related to elitism in our sport from those who nitpick distances, times, races, other racers, etc.as if we're all vying to be top trail runner of the universe. I am more disturbed by forgetting our sport's roots and trailblazers than I am about Lance racing. I run for me. Trail running is at times sublime and other times not so much but in the end, If I come in last but still make time...I still ran the same distance and race everyone else did and that makes me happy. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04961954111562339226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-10911214840196602442015-12-15T23:18:20.464-06:002015-12-15T23:18:20.464-06:00At the heart of this piece is a message that rings...At the heart of this piece is a message that rings home with me: You just wanna run. For me, after a personally disappointing year of zero significant runs due to an injury, I could not care less about so called elites, controversies about what distance is an ultra, who doped, who cheated, etc. I just want to run,far,too;and I'm getting back there. If I was going to care about a running issue,it would be an issue related to elitism in our sport from those who nitpick distances, times, races, other racers, etc.as if we're all vying to be top trail runner of the universe. I am more disturbed by forgetting our sport's roots and trailblazers than I am about Lance racing. I run for me. Trail running is at times sublime and other times not so much but in the end, If I come in last but still make time...I still ran the same distance and race everyone else did and that makes me happy. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04961954111562339226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-73394627126368463082015-12-15T23:03:34.676-06:002015-12-15T23:03:34.676-06:00Hey Scott no worries. I appreciate your comment an...Hey Scott no worries. I appreciate your comment and agree with the "real-world important problems" vs the minor details of PEDs/Lance and running "issues." As for the unfriending on Facebook I apologize....but please don't take it personally (although if you don't like to see a of sponsor product plugs/posts or rants about Maffetone it might not be a good idea to follow me!). I would be honored to be on "Ten Junk Miles" and will take you up on that offer. Shoot me an email: sage@vo2maxproductions.com . All the best, SageSage Canadayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17204110242415252944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-34896147480482250352015-12-15T22:21:23.657-06:002015-12-15T22:21:23.657-06:00You may be right, and that's a fair criticism ...You may be right, and that's a fair criticism of me. I'm formulating my opinion of you based on what I see on social media (and you unfriending me for having a differing opinion). Some day may we will meet and I'm sure that opinion will change because admittedly, most people speak highly of you. "Sunsets" was being used somewhat metaphorically. We've run Comrades. We've seen people with real problems. You know neither you nor I have them. We're somewhat privileged people arguing about an expensive, fringe sport. I don't wish you ill will and I'm sorry I used you as an example. And if you ever want to come on Ten Junk Miles and talk about any of this you are welcome anytime. You were very good on Breaking the Stigma. Scotty Kummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05247775319371323253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-57293515684271001082015-12-15T21:59:06.235-06:002015-12-15T21:59:06.235-06:00Dude this is Nic Wied, Man U r welcome to come bac...Dude this is Nic Wied, Man U r welcome to come back home any time, I'll even pace you on the ice age trail and you can yell at me some more for eating meat ;)! Just kidding man, can't wait to catch up, r u coming back for holidays? Maybe a run w LPTR?Nicholas Wiedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18103944392895810659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1256421765395819475.post-46241264968609008812015-12-15T21:47:05.880-06:002015-12-15T21:47:05.880-06:00So I'm "enjoying Boulder sunsets and the ...So I'm "enjoying Boulder sunsets and the like.." now? Hey Scott, I apologize if I've somehow offended you in anyway but you seem to know more about my personal life than I do! I don't even remember the last time I've enjoyed a Boulder sunset. I've worked really hard in running, gaining sponsorships, and building an online brand for my coaching business. Perhaps I am judging Lance unfairly, but perhaps you are also judging "elites" a bit unfairly as well? Thank you and I wish you the best in everything. Sincerely, Sage CanadaySage Canadayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17204110242415252944noreply@blogger.com